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Should Boston Muzzle Pit Bulls?

Mayor Menino says yes, but the state has banned breed-specific regulations for dogs.

 

Mayor Thomas Menino wants Boston's pit bull muzzle rule resurrected. His comments to the Boston Herald came in the wake of a vicious pit bull attack in East Boston over the weekend. One dog was shot by police after it and another pit bull attacked a boy and killed a cat.

The state ban goes into effect Nov. 1, but Menino wants the city's muzzle requirements to stay in place.

What do you think? Should pit bulls remain muzzled in Boston? Should the city adopt a rule for all dogs instead? Or do you think the state's ban on breed-specific regulations makes sense? Tell us in the comments below.

 

[Editor's note: This item appears on all Boston Patch sites.]

Related Topics: Muzzle law and Pit Bull

Kevin S.

4:55 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012

All dogs should be muzzled in public. Also, dog fouling in public should be prohibited. It's all about health and safety.

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annmarie

8:46 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012

sounds like you just don't like dogs.

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Betty

9:44 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012

annmarie, sounds like you dont like kids. Read the article before you respond...moron.

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Laura Prowicz

7:17 pm on Saturday, October 13, 2012

If you want dogs muzzled and the rest of the community agrees, that's the standard. What should not happen is having different standards for different types of dogs because that puts undue burden and restrictions on one class of dog owner, which is unfair and illegal.

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nonnele

9:18 pm on Monday, October 22, 2012

That's a disturbing comment. No dog should be muzzled. Maybe you should put duck tape over your mouth when you go in public, incase you spit on someone. It is a matter of public saftey.

Jennifer Von Hulkein

4:59 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012

I'm not a fan of pit bulls, but more so because of some of the people who own them and not the dogs themselves. I've happened upon mostly friendly pit bulls while walking the streets of Boston. All dogs should be restrained with leashes when out of their homes...and the owners have to have total control over their animals in public.

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mplo

12:12 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012

One has to also wonder about the mentality of people who own pitbulls in the first place, however.

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Laura Prowicz

7:22 pm on Saturday, October 13, 2012

yeah, I agree. people with engineering degrees who train horses on the side and have two kids in college going for medical careers. we're a real scary bunch.

Amanda Bedford

8:17 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012

This is crazy. Pit bulls are no more dangerous than other breeds. It just happens to be that a lot of people train them to be vicious. All dogs need to be trained. They are actually a very sweet, protective breed. It's unfair to single them out.

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mplo

11:21 am on Tuesday, October 9, 2012

Actually, Amanda, pitbulls are much easier to train to be vicious, due not only to their really combative temperaments, but to their physiological build as well; They're extremely muscular, and have an extremely strong jaw, which, unlike other dogs's jaws, tend to really clamp down and not let go when they bite, thus resulting in more horrific, extensive damage. Even leading pitbull educators and pitbull owners alike are warning people "Never trust your pitbull(s) not to fight."

Here's a website that reports some rather frightful, but true stuff about pitbulls:

http://www.dogsbite.org/dangerous-dogs-pit-bull-faq.php

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Laura Prowicz

7:23 pm on Saturday, October 13, 2012

hahaha! really. dogsbite. that's funny. it's like if I use McDonalds web site to prove that hamburgers are good for you. please.

annmarie

8:31 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012

it's the jerk at the end of the leash that makes any dog bad.

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mplo

11:21 am on Tuesday, October 9, 2012

While any dog can go bad, you might wish to read the following website, to make you think a little bit:

http://www.dogsbite.org/dangerous-dogs-pit-bull-faq.php

Andrea Cherez

9:44 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012

I don't believe in breed specific bans. Dogs should be under their guardian's control in public. That might mean muzzles for some, leashes for most and maybe just voice controls for a few rare pups. But just to make the humans err on the side of caution, maybe all guardians should be held responsible for any acts of violence by their furry charges as if they committed the acts themselves. Those kinds of repercussions would get folks' attention.

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Betty

9:48 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012

To make it fair and safe, all dogs should be muzzled. To many incidents with people getting hurt. I hope the boy is doing well.

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annmarie

12:11 pm on Sunday, October 28, 2012

betty my dear, tis you that needs the muzzle!

mark bazilo

10:33 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012

I walked by a pitbull withh a muzzle on..tried to come after me..scared the sh** out me
still

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mplo

11:21 am on Tuesday, October 9, 2012

I saw a guy with a couple of pitbulls, who were on leashes but not muzzled. Those dogs did not look any too friendly!

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Karen V. Stefanini

1:58 am on Wednesday, December 12, 2012

What is scary about pit bulls is that they easily can pull a thousand pounds in contests - although on a leash, most owners have absolutely no control when a pit bull decides to attack a passerby on the sidewalk or more commonly another dog, often tiny tot fur dolls - while gorgeous Maltese owned by Supt of Schools was on a leash a pit bull tore it to shreds on a sidewalk in the South End - muzzles would prevent many tragedies

aVet

11:47 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012

Hate to be the bearer of factual national data but between 1998 and 2012, pit bulls and pit bull mixed breeds are responsible for 70 plus % of dog attack on human fatalities. That is...during every single year during that time frame. In fact Boston alone, the number of pit bull attacks versus other dog type attacks...has doubled since the years late 2010 and 2012.

Possible solution...just like Pawtucket, R.I. has a regulation requiring any pit bull owner hold $100,000 in liability insurance and that every pit bull neutered and spaced, so should Boston and the rest of the nation. Additionally, owners who pit bull is involved in assaulting, injuring or maiming to any degree, and, killing a human, should face felony charges if they trained or inspired their pit bull in any manner to attack a human. For those whose pit bull commits the same violations but where the owner was not home or did not train or inspire that pit bull to commit those violations, then a civilian penalty of a severe fine and up to 90 days in jail for failing to take any and all steps to protect the rest of from their pit bull.

For those among you that somehow want to equate pets with humans and want to instill no discrimination regs protecting your nationally known to be dangerous pit bull, regs could be applied to the second and third dog type ranked under pit bulls for attacking or killing humans. To be fair to the pit bull and their owners.

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DeeKay

2:19 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012

Totally agree with AVet. Thanks for the stats and facts.

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Laura Prowicz

7:29 pm on Saturday, October 13, 2012

Dogs are private property. Putting restrictions and undue burden on only the citizens who own one TYPE of dog is special treatment for those citizens. You can't single out one segment of the dog owning population for special treatment. As many villages and states are finding, this is discrimination. The only way you can do that is to TRY to justify it on the basis that the dogs deserve to be controlled / regulated like drugs. It can't be done because REAL data and stats (published by credible professionals and their organizations) do not find ANY link between pit bull DNA and public safety problems. The only place there is a link is in the minds of people who believe that other lay people's ignorant opinions actually mean something and that the one story they heard last week is representative of all.

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Karen V. Stefanini

2:01 am on Wednesday, December 12, 2012

A horrifying survey was mentioned on google awhile back covering a few years I believe stating that a human died of a fatal pit bull mauling every 21 days in the US - and countless pups often tiny fur dolls like my cutie Maltese/Yorkie designer dog (morkie) are killed by pit bulls and other "dangerous" breeds every year - muzzles would prevent these tragedies

yogasong

6:52 am on Tuesday, October 9, 2012

Thank you aVet. I'm a dog lover but also understand that the pit bull breed is the most likely breed to be taught to fight and attack. Your stats support my understanding. I too have met many lovely Pits, but there's way too many aggressive ones out there and I don't seeing it changing any time soon. I'm with Menino on this one.

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Karen V. Stefanini

2:03 am on Wednesday, December 12, 2012

Yup, they were indeed bred for ages back in England to fight and kill - they seemed to enjoy this heinous activity - sadly many do make great family pets and therapy dogs, but muzzles are necessary to prevent tragedies

Bob Cronk

8:06 am on Tuesday, October 9, 2012

http://www.1800petmeds.com/education/pit-bull-facts-and-myths.htm Prince George spends almost a quater of million dollars a year to enforce BSL... yet they admit public safety has not improved since implementing BSL

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Karen V. Stefanini

2:04 am on Wednesday, December 12, 2012

Why not just have them wear muzzles and then they won't be slaughtered the way they are. Sadly they are universally hated and feared. Many make great lifelong pets, but many also snap and kill their owners or children or other family pets. It is a quagmire of controversy I gather.

Bob Cronk

1:08 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012

Anyone useing dogbite.com should know who this website is run by. It is run by Collen Lynn who claims to have been bitten by a pit bull type dog...however she has never supplied the police report and changed her story a number of times about the incident. She received a monteray award from the dogs owners.. yet the dog had never bitten before. She know runs a website that gathers info. from goggle searches and relies on nothing but reporting by the news media. She however will accept donations...

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Laura Prowicz

7:31 pm on Saturday, October 13, 2012

she also has several computer programs that troll internet news articles to post their message to the comments, to look like there are a lot of people out there who 'know something" and are against the breed. pretty funny, actually. she really lacks credibility.

JOE F

2:42 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012

C'MON FOLKS LETS LOOK AT THE NUMBERS HERE . IM A DOG PERSON BUT IM SORRY PIT BULLS CHANGE . ONE DAY THEY ARE FRIENDLY THE NEXT DAY THEY ARE ATTACKING YOU. PIT BULLS SHOULD EITHER BE NEUTURED OR MUZZLED . WHEN YOU DO GET YA DOG FIXED IT DOES PROLONG THEIR LIFE ALSO ,AND IT DOES CALM THEM DOWN A LITTLE.

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Karl Stier

3:20 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012

This might be off-topic but does anybody want to buy my monkey?

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David Ertischek

3:34 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012

Karl - you darn well know that having a monkey as a pet is illegal in Massachusetts. Unless it's a helper monkey. Is this a helper monkey?

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Jay K.

3:56 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012

All monkeys are helper monkeys. On an unrelated note, Hook 'em Karl!

Joseph

3:59 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012

Jack Russel Terriers - They're another dog that needs a muzzle. Those little rats are vicious!! I'm not even joking. They are about as protective as they get.

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anonymous

5:30 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012

This is funny...kind of like the no texting while driving law. This causes everyone to argue over a potential law that's unenforceable. Do you people really think that 'bad' or irresponsible pitbull owners care about leash laws or muzzle laws? Do you really think BPD is going to give someone a ticket for not having a muzzle on their pitbull? How does BPD determine if it's a pitbull or not? Why would a police officer want to approach someone with a non-muzzled pitbull when there are so many other problems to address? Let call it what it is...something bad (and very rare) happened in the city and the mayor wants to sign a piece a paper making him look good. This is about votes. This is about politics. If you think this piece of paper is going to save you from your next dog bite i don't know what to tell you.

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Karen V. Stefanini

2:09 am on Wednesday, December 12, 2012

These dogs to turn and it is hard to predict as many are beloved lifelong family pets. But a survey was done according to a google article that stated every 21 days a human died after being attacked by a pit bull or other "dangerous breed" - awhile back the Supt of Schools beloved Maltese was torn to shreds on a sidewalk in the South End.....good enough reason to have these dogs wear muzzles....many dogs are mauled by pit bulls.

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Laura Prowicz

11:35 am on Wednesday, December 12, 2012

You are VERY smart and observant. Only the people with dogs that are not part of the problem will follow the law and muzzle and NONE of the problem owners with problem dogs will muzzle. Which is why segmenting out only small factions of dog owners for "special treatment" doesn't work. Which is why everyone rallies when they try to pass laws like this for ALL dogs: because they people see quickly that many more "good" dogs and owners are infringed upon then "bad". It is just the same when you say "only this type of dog" is subject to the restriction. Very smart.

Tammy

8:10 am on Wednesday, October 10, 2012

Pulled from an article published October 7. 2012... "I get that poodles bite. But if a poodle or beagle bites me, I can defend myself," said City Councilor Robert Consalvo. "A pit bull's a much more aggressive attack." Do you really think that Councilor Consalvo has comparative experiences - i.e. both defending himself against a poodle (standard or miniature by the way?), beagle, and a pit bull to make a reasonable comparison? Does anyone? Statements like this only serve to confound rational dialog and add emotion to the mix.

By the way, Boston already has a pit pull muzzle law but I have yet to see a pit bull with a muzzle in the South End. Clearly the law hasn't been enforced and is not needed.

Read more: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2012/10/07/Menino-pledges-strict-pit-bull-muzzle-law/UPI-14151349625151/#ixzz28tg3Goea

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Tammy

8:15 am on Wednesday, October 10, 2012

I am reposting this from a previous Patch article about BSL ban in Mass. There was a study conducted actually measuring bite strength of different dog breeds. Please note, in contradiction to some of the comments posted above, that pitbull bite strength is less than other breeds (http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/uploaded_files/tinymce/Fear%20versus%20fact_1.pdf) so, if bite strength is the concern, then GSDs and Rotties should also be subject to the muzzle law. Or, perhaps the city could start testing the bite strength of each dog during license application and require muzzles for individuals with a bite above a certain threshold. Sounds kind of ridiculous, doesn't it?

I repeat (from the previous Patch article), I am glad to see the state law banning BSL go into effect.

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bostadelphian

12:52 pm on Wednesday, October 10, 2012

I hope that boy is going to be alright. I have children and love animals. Bottom line: ALL animals can be unpredictable. Unfortunately the dog behaves in the manner in which it's trained. There are a handful of dog owners who abuse their dogs and this raises the 'unpredictable' factor quite a bit. I have walked the Arboretum, Millenium Park and the local and not so local ponds and it's a fine day when a dog doesn't come running up to sniff/jump up on me and my children. If it's a large dog, I get nervous & upset. Then the owner says 'he 's friendly or he won't bite' etc. Cool, please get your dog off me, thanks. This is frustrating & maddening. There is a leash law and not everyone abides by it. I'm comfortable when dogs are leashed. Their owners are in control. When I go for a walk I want to relax & enjoy the park/nature, not get annoyed & tensed up that someone's dog (unleashed) has free reign of the park. We all have to share it and respect it and each other. I feel a muzzle on certain breeds would be best. Now, if they will be worn is a whole other issue. Those that do own these breeds again there is a small handful who may not take that responsibility seriously. I'm sure majority of people will do the right thing but it's all down to the owners and taking responsibility.

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bostonluver

7:37 am on Thursday, October 11, 2012

I have the same experience as 'bostadelphian'! I am tired of trying to walk around the city and having peoples dogs come at me because they are not on a leash! I have almost been attcked by a rotweiler and a pit bull- they approched and stood infront of me growling and staring at me. I love dogs and those are the only 2 breeds that I have had a harrowing experience with. I agree thay should be muzzled unless they are at home INSIDE- too many people/children have paid the devastating price of some fool saying "he's such a great pit!!"

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Ken

8:17 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012

Well said bostonluver. Animals should not even be allowed in public...period! Service dogs exempt. Plus, I am disgusted by these low life dog owners using the city as a toilet for their dogs. Dirty Pigs!

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Laura Prowicz

2:26 pm on Monday, October 22, 2012

People should leash their dogs and pick up their waste. Those are two laws that every city should have and enforce. I bet if there were hefty fines and maybe even jail time for one or both of these problems you'd have a lot fewer dog problems in your city. Not that dog problems are your biggest problems there ... Boston is one of the least safest cities in the USA as far as violent crime rates go. "Dog issues" are a very very teeny tiny piece of that.

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Matt

10:49 pm on Monday, October 22, 2012

Most dog owners do pick up after their dogs. If they didn't, it would be much worse out there. What alternative do you have to "using the city as their toilet"? I'm not sure what you expect dog owners to do, exactly. If you don't like dogs, that's one thing, but many people do like dogs and will own them, so it would be more helpful to hear concrete suggestions and not just complaining.

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Laura Prowicz

11:31 am on Wednesday, December 12, 2012

Matt, I apologize for never seeing your post. I did not intend to imply that there are not people who don't pick up after their dogs. In Chicago they have special receptacles placed outdoors for dog waste and some of them even have plastic bag dispensers attached to them. What a great idea, right? I am all about making our cities and towns Dog-Friendly. Check out some facts on Chicago, I think they do a great job of that!! Maybe you can pester Boston about taking up some of their ideas for your citizens!

John D

2:14 pm on Monday, October 22, 2012

I would rather see the savages that turn Pit Bulls into weapon dogs muzzled. as we can't do that, unfortunately the dogs must be muzzled.

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annmarie

12:20 pm on Sunday, October 28, 2012

thats right ! THE OTHER END OF THE LEASH MAKES THE DOG ,TAKE THE POOR DOGS AWAY AND GIVE SOME OF THE OWNERS BELTS SO THEY CAN HOLD UP THEIR PANTS.

Laura Prowicz

2:24 pm on Monday, October 22, 2012

Propose to muzzle all dogs and we can all support you. Until then no one dog owner should be singled out from any other dog owner for special treatment. it's discriminatory and un-American. do it on the basis of the owner's color, religion or type of dog they like. it's all the same thing: Discrimination.

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Tammy

7:19 am on Friday, October 26, 2012

Check this out. http://www.beyondthemythmovie.com/
Open your mind. Learn more about pit bulls and the effects of breed specific legislation.

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annmarie

12:15 pm on Sunday, October 28, 2012

betty the real morons are the ones who cant keep their pants up and fight those poor dogs,the more I know people like you the more I love my pitbull.

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Laura Prowicz

11:29 am on Wednesday, December 12, 2012

First off I'd like to say "Welcome" to our two week late (or is it more than a month late?) newcomer, Karen V. Stefanini. Second I'd love to ask that she simply crawl back under whatever rock she emerged from under since none of what she posted is TRUE much less justifies singling out a segment of the population for "special treatment" that no one else is subject to, simply because of the type of dog they choose to own.

Remember, Karen V. Stefanini, that we folks who own these types of dogs have the very same rights and responsibilities that you do. And therefore we desire and DESERVE the very same treatment under the law. Your weak, non-factual verbal diarrhea does nothing to negate our rights. Sorry.

You have yourself an awesome day. :-)

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Karen V. Stefanini

1:13 pm on Wednesday, December 12, 2012

My information was all found in online articles. Why would anyone post lies about these magnificent dogs? I love pit bulls and want them protected and I thought the muzzles would prevent their being slaughtered the way they are all over the US.

Whit

12:25 pm on Wednesday, December 12, 2012

Take hold of yerself, Laura. You are starting to sound like the kind of person I don't want owning a pitbull.

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Laura Prowicz

12:51 pm on Wednesday, December 12, 2012

Really? That's great because you don't get to choose. It's my right as a citizen to do what I please, when I please. As long as I don't break any laws and don't intrude on your rights - you got nothin' to say. Have a great day!! :-)

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Karen V. Stefanini

1:02 pm on Wednesday, December 12, 2012

The information I submitted is online - I can't see why people would post lies about these magnificent dogs. If what you say about how all the statistics are lies, great. I love all dogs. I have donated thousands of dollars via Facebook dog rescue threads to save countless dogs from euthanasia including several pit bulls.

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Laura Prowicz

1:25 pm on Wednesday, December 12, 2012

Because no citizen needs to be singled out for "special treatment" from any other citizen. If you want to muzzle "dogs" - I support you 100%. That is a non-discriminatory judgement by the community for the community that applies to all citizens equally. When you single out certain citizens for undue burden than other citizens - that is discrimination. I don't care if you love me or hate me. Your feelings about me don't factor into my life. If I don't break any laws and I don't intrude on your rights then you should have no right to tell me (through Government) how to manage my own property. That is simply none of your business.

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Whit

2:02 pm on Wednesday, December 12, 2012

Laura Prowicz, you are a bully. Karen seems like a very nice and thoughtful person. I am sure she will feel very sorry when your dogs eat you up.

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Laura Prowicz

2:19 pm on Wednesday, December 12, 2012

Logic and reason are always met with : "You are mean and a bully." Last refuge of the ignorant. People are just too predictable in this very consistent reaction to the truth. Truth is my dog is of no more interest to me or the Government than a table or a chair. Private property. Sugary packed patronising prose intended to make it more doesn't change the fact. That you can't get jiggy with it is your stuff, not mine. Does that make me a bully? Guess it depends which end of the conversation you're viewing from: the logical end or the touchy-feely I-want-to-tell-you-how-to live-your-life-so-its-standards-match-mine end. That you think touchy feely patronising prose is "thoughtful" is laughable but I do thank you for the entertainment.

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Karen V. Stefanini

4:38 pm on Wednesday, December 12, 2012

I don't agree with Laura Prowicz's logic that state's she considers her pit bull private property. I on the other hand consider my fur dude Rexie our pride and joy and beloved family member. He is a Yorkie mix (morkie) and is considered vicious since he has nipped 3 people (no damage done). He wears a muzzle when we are out in public. I think muzzles would protect the pit bulls from bsl and there are comfy humane muzzles available. As it stands, bsl is raging all over the country and millions of precious pit bulls are being euthanized while we sit here arguing. If they were required to wear muzzles bsl wouldn't even exist and this slaughter would stop.

Laura Prowicz

4:55 pm on Wednesday, December 12, 2012

Well then if you're such a believer then press for a muzzle law for ALL dogs. Anthing else is discriminatory and violates the rights of the citizens separated out for special treatment under the law.
Meanwhile your anecdotes about treating your dogs like children while warm and cozy feeling are irrelevent and immaterial.

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Owen

8:33 am on Thursday, December 13, 2012

You really don't have to come off as flip and arrogant as you do, or is that just how people do things in your neck of the woods? Seriously, Boston residents will concern themselves with Boston business. I'm sure there are plenty of issues in Chicago for you to worry about.

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Karen V. Stefanini

8:59 am on Thursday, December 13, 2012

Laura Prowicz, my comments are not irrelevant to me (note spelling). Also, since all dogs are potentially dangerous, yes, they all should probably be muzzled when in public.

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Laura Prowicz

11:40 am on Thursday, December 13, 2012

Flip, arrogant, bully, mean. Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me.

Just because none of you wishes to engage in the real issue here ("should certain citizens be subject to special rules and restrictions because of the type of dog they choose to own") does not mean there aren't some of us who are able to stay on topic.

Does that bother you? Would you feel more comfortable if I worried about the fact that I misspelled a word, or talked about my little poopsie and how we spoon ourselves to sleep every night?

So sorry. I prefer to stay on topic. That you cannot or will not is not my issue and I won't let you make it so. :-) Have a great day!!

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Owen

2:34 pm on Thursday, December 13, 2012

Laura, you need to relax. I was just trying to give you some friendly advice, but apparently you're not very friendly. Have a nice day.

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Laura Prowicz

4:13 pm on Thursday, December 13, 2012

What I don't need is anyone telling me what to do. And funnily enough, that's what this whole issue is about. I am not sure why no one gets that.

I live my life and do what I want to do. You live your life and do what you want to do. I don't tell you how to live your life and you don't tell me how to live my life.

...Unless I happen to choose a certain type of dog for my family, and then it's ok for you to use the Government to tell me how to live (at least one aspect of) my life.

yes, yes it is that simple.

and that's why I don't RELAX. get it?

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Owen

8:07 pm on Thursday, December 13, 2012

Laura,

You allow people to tell you what to do everyday. We all do. They're called "laws". We're told we can't take certain drugs, that we can't drive as fast as we want, that we can't cross the street anywhere we want, etc.

Many dog owners do not abide by the law. You don't live in Boston, or in a city, for that matter (profile says your a suburbian), but I can attest to the fact that anywhere this is a patch of grass, at least one person will probably consider it a dog park. Perhaps dog owners feel that there are not enough viable dog friendly options in the city. That's a battle that needs to be taken directly to city officials. However, I, dog owner or otherwise, have the right to walk from point "a" to point "b" with the reasonable expectation that I will not be attacked by someone's pet who tripped offline while playing fetch for some unexplainable reason. It happens. I doubt I'll get a response from you that isn't arrogant or flip, but I hope you're starting to see true reason here. Certain breeds make people nervous because certain owners have set that precedent. It's a fact of life.

BenLaGuer

9:18 am on Thursday, December 13, 2012

The problem is the owner(s) not the breed, but unless you are going to prevent certain people from owning them (good luck!) we need a muzzle law if not an outright ban.

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Owen

7:59 pm on Thursday, December 13, 2012

Well if enough bad owners are causing problems for everyone else, and there isn't enough enforcement of laws happening to satisfy the voting public, then guess what? The majority will speak.

Laura Prowicz

11:34 am on Thursday, December 13, 2012

Finally someone willing to say what no one else will! As always it's not about "the dogs" it's about "those kind of people who own those kind of dogs .... they don't deserve the same rights as the rest of us. they are not like us. they are not responsible like us. they don't manage their animals like we do. they need to be restricted, legislated, monitored."

Of course herein is the implied message: In the class of people designated as "pit bull lovers / owners" there are NO respectable, responsible citizens and that is why it is justifiable to set them apart and apply special rules just to them. To Discriminate against them.

But please tell me if you can, does that mean in the class of people designated as "pit bull owners / lovers" there are NO:
- Doctors
- Lawyers
- School teachers
- Celebrities
- Professional sports players
- Engineers
- PhD holders
- Authors
- Architects

... and if there are, are these people ALSO assumed to be irresponsible, below standard as well? No? Then why would you support treating them so simply because of the Type of Dog they Choose to Own??

Ben: thank you for saying what everyone is thinking and no one says so that these important questions could be asked.

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Owen

8:10 pm on Thursday, December 13, 2012

I think it's interesting how you presume everyone was thinking what "Ben" posted. A true sign of arrogance.

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Laura Prowicz

10:38 am on Friday, December 14, 2012

Yeah? well here is commenter #2 also voicing the same.
"Certain breeds make people nervous because certain owners have set that precedent."

Truth is even though no one Says it MOST Think it. That is a fact. Laws pertaining ONLY to "pit bull owners" are not about the dogs. They are about the people that own those dogs and they are about separating out those people for "special handling" because they are Irresponsible and Not To Be Trusted.

Sugar coat it all you like - at the end of the day it's still DISCRIMINATION.

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Laura Prowicz

11:02 am on Friday, December 14, 2012

ha!! and even better :Commenter #2 is YOU. LOL wow, if that is not just the most classic two-faced double-talking duplicitous behavior I have EVER seen in person and separated by what? an hour. Legendary.

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Owen

12:19 pm on Friday, December 14, 2012

You must be exhausting to deal with face to face.

Anyway, I never said I am against certain breeds/owners/whatever having special laws apply to them. In both of my responses (which you somehow think are double speak but pretty much said the exact same thing) I stated that if the situation calls for it, and level headed, reasonable people have reason to believe that BSL would be effective, then that's that. This is not discrimination. No one is suggesting that certain owners of certain animals must drink from different water fountains, or that they can not hold certain jobs. People are way to quick to pull the discrimination card.

At this point, enough people have pointed out the lunacy of your "argument" and you're firing back out of pure egotism. By your logic, truck drivers should not have special licenses, fisheries laws shouldn't exist (you seem to fancy yourself the resident expert here, so you should know exactly what I'm talking about on this one), nor would the occupancy of a house dictate whether or not one needs certain city permits to do work on the building, etc, etc. On your planet with your six horses, all of the above mentioned items would be examples of discrimination.

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Laura Prowicz

12:33 pm on Friday, December 14, 2012

"By your logic, truck drivers should not have special licenses, fisheries laws shouldn't exist (you seem to fancy yourself the resident expert here, so you should know exactly what I'm talking about on this one), nor would the occupancy of a house dictate whether or not one needs certain city permits to do work on the building, etc, etc." - no idea why I'd be an expert on fish laws, but ok. Yes, my general viewpoint is that less Government intervention in people's private lives is good. There are some places where Government needs to regulate or restrict in order to provide for the public good and I generally agree with that as do most people - however in my mind no individuals simply in the act of enjoying their private lives should be subject to regulation or restriction and no individual citizens should be placed in a class for regulation or restriction.

Your point that separating out people as a class because of the type of dog they own not being discrimination is false - it is discrimination. BSL doesn't work and is discriminatory on its face. Probably the major reason your State dictated that it be disallowed.

You yourself have said it even though you obviously didn't intend to. It's not about the dogs it's about the owners. When it's about the owners you are talking about restricting the rights of individuals in the process of living their private lives to enjoy their private property. That is wrong and it IS Discriminatory.

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Laura Prowicz

12:42 pm on Friday, December 14, 2012

... and as I keep saying, keep calling me names and telling me what I am. "What Sally says about Mary says a lot more about Sally than it does about Mary." :-)

I don't respond to personal insults. I don't care what you think about me. The facts are still the facts no matter what kind of person you think I am. Folks out in Boston and elsewhere "out east" (I am from out east and most of my family lives there) are very protective of their rights to living free of Government intervention. They also don't care much what other people think about what they think.

Either this thread will die or Boston will repeal their BSL and ridiculous discriminatory restrictions on "certain classes" of people in their city. Only one of the two will stop the repartee. If you've noticed, I don't tire of it. :-)

Whit

12:14 pm on Thursday, December 13, 2012

Well, we tried to provide you with a sort of internet comment thread group intervention but you rejected it. I guess you can just go ahead and be as crazy sounding as you want to--it's a free country. It is your inalienable right to do so unlike your imaginary 'right' to walk around with an unmuzzled menace to society--which pitbulls undoubtedly are.

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Laura Prowicz

12:22 pm on Thursday, December 13, 2012

What Whit says about Laura says more about Whit than it does about Laura. :-)

I love playground wisdom. So applicable.

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Karen V. Stefanini

7:33 pm on Thursday, December 13, 2012

Opposing muzzles is so far fetched it is beyond my comprehension. So many people, especially children, and pets have been seriously injured with many fatalities by the bully breeds and other dangerous dogs that to risk it in future is totally lacking in normal emotional response, especially compassion and empathy. The arguments against muzzles are absolutely repulsive and obnoxious. Case closed.

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Owen

8:09 pm on Thursday, December 13, 2012

While we're on the topic of dogs in in the city, can people please stop using the area around the Bunker Hill Monument as a dog park? People sit on the grass there when it's nice. They sit on the same grass where a dog's poop might have been hours before. Above all it's sacred ground, national heritage wise. No one should be using it as a toilet.

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Laura Prowicz

10:25 am on Friday, December 14, 2012

"The truth is not located in the single voice, but emerges from the conversation as a whole. Within this form of heterotopic discourse, one can play devil’s advocate, have one’s tongue in one’s cheek, purposefully overstate one’s case, or attack positions that one agrees with. The point of the discourse is to expose the strengths and weaknesses of various positions through rigorous challenge, not to provide a balanced position in a single monologue. Those familiar with such discourse will be accustomed to hyperbolic and unbalanced expressions. They will appreciate that such expressions are seldom intended as the sole and final word on the matter by those who utter them, but as a forceful presentation of one particular dimension of or perspective upon the truth, always presuming the existence of counterbalancing perspectives that have no less merit and veracity." - Alastair's Adversaria

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Karen V. Stefanini

11:05 am on Friday, December 14, 2012

I guess I am repeating myself. Opposing muzzles is so far fetched it is beyond my comprehension. So many people, especially children, and pets have been seriously injured with many fatalities by the bully breeds and other dangerous dogs that to risk it in future is totally lacking in normal emotional response, especially compassion and empathy. The arguments against muzzles are absolutely repulsive and obnoxious. Case closed.

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Laura Prowicz

11:28 am on Friday, December 14, 2012

Karen: because you are advocating a change in behavior for only ONE segment of the population and everyone can see that making special rules and having the Government pay special attention to only "one class" of citizen based on some ridiculous arbitrary thing (like what kind of dog they like) is wasteful in time and money and Discriminatory against those citizens.

If you are such a big believer in muzzles and really convinced that is the way to go then commit yourself to a law for ALL dogs to be muzzled. That way all citizens are subject to the same scrutiny and the same restrictions. That would be an example of a FAIR law. Maybe not pleasant maybe not good but fair.

I think the reason you don't is because you know that the thousands of dog owners would howl in protest. Much easier to just go after the relatively small population of people who happen to like blocky-headed dogs - they won't make as much noise when they howl in protest about you changing how they have to live their lives.

Good thing some of us out here don't get distracted by your consistent penchant for labeling us and our dogs and taking the bait to debate your touchy-feely feelings about us. What you advocate is Discrimination is plain and simple and those of us who recognize it for what it is will fight it and people like you all day every day where-ever you appear.

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Karen V. Stefanini

11:49 am on Friday, December 14, 2012

Laura, I mention that all dogs deemed dangerous, and there are several, should be muzzled when in public. My pup's muzzle is very comfortable and humane and he can eat treats, drink water, pant which is vital, and most importantly to my 13 lb vicious morkie Rexie, he can bark and growl at passersby to his heart's content. No damage done, but he has nipped three people and that is a red flag. My insurance agent won't allow us to increase our umbrella policy because of him. Evidently 1/4 of all insurance claims are for dog bites. Amazingly, I read a plastic surgeon's report that stated small dogs' bites require the most extensive plastic surgeries to repair damaged faces. If it prevents tragedy, then their owners owners of the dogs that have been found to be dangerous should be more than willing to comply with muzzles. It surely isn't just pit bulls or bullies who have wreaked havoc in so many lives with their often unprovoked attacks. The vast majority of pit bulls are loving caring dogs and actually make terrific therapy dogs in hospitals and nursing homes. (My personal opinion is that all dogs should be muzzled when in public, but no one would pay any attention to this, although it is a sensible suggestion).

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Owen

12:27 pm on Friday, December 14, 2012

This has been your argument your first post on this topic. Somehow "Laura" got the idea that you are advocating muzzles for just one specific breed/owner, which apparently is the biggest threat to freedom since the Espionage Act of 1917. I'm fine with dogs being muzzled. And why a dog owner wouldn't appreciate that peace of mind is beyond me.

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Owen

12:27 pm on Friday, December 14, 2012

This has been your argument your first post on this topic. Somehow "Laura" got the idea that you are advocating muzzles for just one specific breed/owner, which apparently is the biggest threat to freedom since the Espionage Act of 1917. I'm fine with dogs being muzzled. And why a dog owner wouldn't appreciate that peace of mind is beyond me.

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Laura Prowicz

12:56 pm on Friday, December 14, 2012

Exactly yes. MUZZLE ALL DOGS. If Boston as a Community decides that Muzzling is the way to go to protect the public safety of all citizens then Muzzle All Dogs. That is not discriminatory. That is a community decision that applies EQUALLY to all dog-owning citizens. There is no picky-choosey about who gets the muzzle and who doesn't based on some arbitrary and "judgement" about which dogs are worthy and which aren't. MUZZLE THEM ALL. Fair. Equitable. Non-Discriminatory. I support you 100%.

Karen V. Stefanini

11:55 am on Friday, December 14, 2012

Laura, if you are on Facebook, do try to get active in dog rescue and then you will see how tens of thousands of pit bulls and other dangerous dogs are euthanized (it runs into the millions annually I believe). It is horrifying and if muzzles would prevent this slaughter, I am all for it.

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Laura Prowicz

12:02 pm on Friday, December 14, 2012

You keep saying this, like it's supposed to mean something. Karen make any case you like based on your thoughts and feelings and how much you want to prevent dog slaughter, how your poopsie gets the muzzle in public, etc. Doesn't matter. What matters is what you propose is Discrimination. That all dog owners of a Certain Type of dog should go to all of this trouble, change their lives as dictated by Government, subject themselves to special treatment and restrictions by the Government only because of the type of dog they choose to own. Everything else is just your attempt to Justify why it should be OK and why I should be OK with it. No. It is not ok, will not ever be ok and I reject it. As should any thinking citizen who values our Constitution and our civil rights.

It is my Personal opinion that if a dog bites a human, it should be put down. Immediately. No trial, no thought, no debate. I'll shoot it myself if it's mine. So there should be no need for muzzles, period. If your dog is vicious enough to need a muzzle or has ever bit a human being it should be gone, not muzzled. In my book there should be no need for muzzles at all.

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Owen

12:36 pm on Friday, December 14, 2012

Taking your arguments apart is so easy it's almost not even fun.

You state that if a dog bites a human, that dog should immediately be killed, thus making muzzles moot. However, if a muzzle is worn, then biting isn't really a factor anymore. You can imagine how people could be left scratching their heads trying to figure out what, exactly, you're trying to say. Furthermore, a dog doesn't have to be Cujo to trip offline and do something bad. They are animals. Domesticated, yes. But animals nonetheless. I love certain dogs that I deal with regularly, and detest others (just like humans). And I think that muzzles would give many people peace of mind.

I'm starting to think that you're maintaining your stance on this out of stubornness.

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Laura Prowicz

12:53 pm on Friday, December 14, 2012

Right. and my response was "Muzzle ALL dogs" - an example of a Fair and Non-Discriminatory law. Don't single out certain citizens by a judgement call as to who is worthy who is not. Just muzzle them all. Done.

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Laura Prowicz

1:00 pm on Friday, December 14, 2012

It's just my opinion that dogs that bite should be put down. Maybe Boston wants to pass that law instead of a muzzling law. If your dog bites a person then it is put down no appeal. IMO also another good example of a Fair, Non-Discriminatory law. One which I would move to support before a mass muzzling law but that's just me.

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Laura Prowicz

1:36 pm on Friday, December 14, 2012

Owen? where'd you go. Waiting for you to take my arguments apart, cause that's so fun! LOL :-)

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Karen V. Stefanini

1:37 pm on Friday, December 14, 2012

Rexie is anything but my poopsie, believe me. He is and was since a tiny tot a natural born killer but he is exceptionally cute so everyone loves him and can't get enough of him. He is the consummate guard dog and attacks anyone who comes near me. He was vicious as a puppy. He is all terrier - the Yorkies were bred to hunt and kill for ages in England. Rexie is one tough little fur dude and he has the terrier strength and can pull me down the sidewalk. Bulls were bred with terriers for just this reason. They are often aggressive and exceptionally strong. I have read this in several articles and I tend to believe it. Why would people lie about bully breed dogs? Plus this is a world where we all meet with discrimination, often based on our appearance. I was always considered an Elizabeth Taylor look-alike when young and was treated with acceptance and welcomed but other peers who weren't blessed with beauty were shunned and ostracized. Appearance is also what is causing the bullies to be so quickly condemned and ostracized and euthanized. It is tragic.

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Laura Prowicz

1:41 pm on Friday, December 14, 2012

Sifting, sifting, sifting for data or something actionable here. Karen. Have a point.

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Laura Prowicz

1:57 pm on Friday, December 14, 2012

Although I am giggling about the stuff you posted. A vicous Yorkie who bites and terrorizes your neighbors and community and you're worried about making sure only pit bull owners have to muzzle their dos? You look like Elizabeth Taylor? You think someone getting treated different because they are not pretty like you is Discrimination?

You can't even be real. Please.

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Karen V. Stefanini

2:06 pm on Friday, December 14, 2012

Laura, I am merely trying to explain that discrimination is just a part of life. I read that around half of our population dislikes dogs intensely. And most of those people find the bullies and other dangerous breeds downright repulsive. These dangerous dogs don't stand a chance unless protections are put into place. Wearing muzzles would protect them from continuous slaughter. I won't post in future as I have said just about all I can think of to convince Laura and others that muzzles will protect the dangerous breeds from continuous rampant slaughter.

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Laura Prowicz

2:11 pm on Friday, December 14, 2012

Being discriminating and using the Government to Discriminate against Citizens are two VASTLY different and non-comparable things. They are not in the same ball park or even the same sport.

Muzzle all dogs Karen. That is the only way to have your dream and have it be fair.

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Karen V. Stefanini

2:17 pm on Friday, December 14, 2012

Laura, I mentioned that all dogs should be muzzled in my opinion in a prior post since they are all potentially dangerous. I have told neighbors that I will have Rexie put in a shelter where he will be euthanized if they are annoyed by his barking and carrying on and they all say that he is such a cupcake and the cutest dog they have ever seen and they can't get enough of him. They all love Rexie and are very protective of him based on the morkie cuteness factor. They all know that they aren't in danger since Rexie wears a cute muzzle. Everyone loves Rexie because of his beauty. In the past I had been considered beautiful and discrimination was in my favor. There is so much discrimination based on looks it shocks me even. I read that two equally qualified people applying for a job meet with discrimination based on looks generally. The better looking applicants get the job. This is true with dogs also. The bully breeds and other dangerous dogs don't stand a chance and slaughtering millions of these poor dogs over the years will continue unless they wear muzzles.

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Laura Prowicz

2:20 pm on Friday, December 14, 2012

There is no logic here. Karen, good luck.

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Karen V. Stefanini

2:50 pm on Friday, December 14, 2012

Laura, I am just trying to share what goes on in this world and it often isn't very logical.This is a democracy and if the Government decides to discriminate it is based on the wishes of the majority of the citizens.

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Joseph

2:50 pm on Friday, December 14, 2012

Why don't you all call it a day and take the time to pray for the families on Newtown, CT. God bless those families and to all those affected by this senseless tragedy. G'day

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Karen V. Stefanini

3:12 pm on Friday, December 14, 2012

Joseph, I am shocked at this tragedy and hadn't known about it till you mentioned it. I honestly blame this country's becoming more and more secular and less respectful of God and life. We are in a downward spiral and at this point none of us are safe. We should pray for everyone in this country since but for the Grace of God there go any of us. These vicious tragedies are heinous and I am in tears of despair as I type this.

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